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	Comments on: A Weekend on the Ironman Wales Bike Course	</title>
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	<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/</link>
	<description>Triathlon and Ironman coaching, Ironman results and statistics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:47:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: russ		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4156</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 10:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4156</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4146&quot;&gt;sean&lt;/a&gt;.

Stick it in the lowest gear for the 500m at 10%, it&#039;s not the place to be making time on the course anyway. With prolonged climbs and descents I&#039;d definitely opt for a more flexible approach, use the descents as a good opportunity to recover. Also, as I was reminded in Lanzarote this weekend, make sure you keep eating on the climbs, don&#039;t delay that.

HR will be a reasonable indicator over long periods, but power is better. Not having it for the Ironman Lanzarote on Saturday was disappointing, not just for the difficulty of pacing, but it is much harder to analyse what happened in that race. My HR was low throughout, but I have no idea what was actually happening in terms of the work I was doing. The pair together would give me a better picture of the condition I was in and if there were unusual discrepancies that might indicate something wrong.

Russ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4146">sean</a>.</p>
<p>Stick it in the lowest gear for the 500m at 10%, it&#8217;s not the place to be making time on the course anyway. With prolonged climbs and descents I&#8217;d definitely opt for a more flexible approach, use the descents as a good opportunity to recover. Also, as I was reminded in Lanzarote this weekend, make sure you keep eating on the climbs, don&#8217;t delay that.</p>
<p>HR will be a reasonable indicator over long periods, but power is better. Not having it for the Ironman Lanzarote on Saturday was disappointing, not just for the difficulty of pacing, but it is much harder to analyse what happened in that race. My HR was low throughout, but I have no idea what was actually happening in terms of the work I was doing. The pair together would give me a better picture of the condition I was in and if there were unusual discrepancies that might indicate something wrong.</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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		<title>
		By: sean		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4146</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2012 22:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4146</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Russ, this helps heaps.
You are right, France is mostly long steady climbs - the steepest I think is the first 500 meters@10%,, where I reckon I&#039;ll try to go really easy to avoid going over threshold and then after that I&#039;ll be looking to keep below 90% threshold HR on the long climbs. 
Initially I was planning on staying lower than this throughout, but I think if I do that I&#039;ll be way too long out there, and as you say there is plenty of long descents to recover on.

I am starting to think that a power meter may be worth all the expense. HR just lags too much to be a good indicator.

Good luck in Lanz, it sounds like a tough course!

Cheers,
Sean]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Russ, this helps heaps.<br />
You are right, France is mostly long steady climbs &#8211; the steepest I think is the first 500 meters@10%,, where I reckon I&#8217;ll try to go really easy to avoid going over threshold and then after that I&#8217;ll be looking to keep below 90% threshold HR on the long climbs.<br />
Initially I was planning on staying lower than this throughout, but I think if I do that I&#8217;ll be way too long out there, and as you say there is plenty of long descents to recover on.</p>
<p>I am starting to think that a power meter may be worth all the expense. HR just lags too much to be a good indicator.</p>
<p>Good luck in Lanz, it sounds like a tough course!</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Sean</p>
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		<title>
		By: russ		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4143</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 12:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4143</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4138&quot;&gt;sean&lt;/a&gt;.

Sean,

As I understand it (I&#039;ve yet to race there) Ironman France mainly has the longer, steadier climbs and fortunately not the short, steep pitches of Wales. This makes the pacing of them slightly easier with heart rate. One of the issues you face with very short, steep pitches is the lag in HR response means you can be a fair way in, or even over the brow before you realise the full impact. When I guide an athlete with power I have very clear instructions to avoid surging over threshold wattage, and they will see immediately if they do. You can spend a good minute getting over threshold HR on a hill, by which time some damage is done. 

That noted my advice would be -

a) Anything short and steep should still be controlled, HR cap for climbing in an Ironman should be kept around the 90-95% of Threshold HR mark. This gives a buffer against unintentionally crossing threshold, but enables you to work hard. Of course if you hit a 20% pitch and you&#039;re out of the saddle you just have to take what comes.

b) For longer climbs you could potentially stretch up towards 90% of threshold HR, say 85-90% so a definite tempo effort. The longer it is the more cost associated with this of course, so bear that in mind; on the other side there&#039;s plenty of descending for all the climbing and this does allow some recovery. On an alpine course you can potentially work a little harder for longer, but recover on the descents. However it remains true that crossing threshold is damaging, those spikes in effort if too frequent cost the legs on the run however much recovery you have on descents.

For comparison the majority of the ride would be an endurance effort and held at around 80-83% of threshold HR.

That&#039;s my general approach on it. I&#039;ll be racing Lanzarote in a couple of days and with my power meter I&#039;ll be focussing on a controlled effort on the climbs, probably aiming for around 85% of FTP as my maximum. There are one or two points where the terrain may simply make this impossible, but otherwise I&#039;ll choose my gearing and moderate my effort to keep with that bound.

Hope that helps,

Russ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4138">sean</a>.</p>
<p>Sean,</p>
<p>As I understand it (I&#8217;ve yet to race there) Ironman France mainly has the longer, steadier climbs and fortunately not the short, steep pitches of Wales. This makes the pacing of them slightly easier with heart rate. One of the issues you face with very short, steep pitches is the lag in HR response means you can be a fair way in, or even over the brow before you realise the full impact. When I guide an athlete with power I have very clear instructions to avoid surging over threshold wattage, and they will see immediately if they do. You can spend a good minute getting over threshold HR on a hill, by which time some damage is done. </p>
<p>That noted my advice would be &#8211;</p>
<p>a) Anything short and steep should still be controlled, HR cap for climbing in an Ironman should be kept around the 90-95% of Threshold HR mark. This gives a buffer against unintentionally crossing threshold, but enables you to work hard. Of course if you hit a 20% pitch and you&#8217;re out of the saddle you just have to take what comes.</p>
<p>b) For longer climbs you could potentially stretch up towards 90% of threshold HR, say 85-90% so a definite tempo effort. The longer it is the more cost associated with this of course, so bear that in mind; on the other side there&#8217;s plenty of descending for all the climbing and this does allow some recovery. On an alpine course you can potentially work a little harder for longer, but recover on the descents. However it remains true that crossing threshold is damaging, those spikes in effort if too frequent cost the legs on the run however much recovery you have on descents.</p>
<p>For comparison the majority of the ride would be an endurance effort and held at around 80-83% of threshold HR.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s my general approach on it. I&#8217;ll be racing Lanzarote in a couple of days and with my power meter I&#8217;ll be focussing on a controlled effort on the climbs, probably aiming for around 85% of FTP as my maximum. There are one or two points where the terrain may simply make this impossible, but otherwise I&#8217;ll choose my gearing and moderate my effort to keep with that bound.</p>
<p>Hope that helps,</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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		<title>
		By: sean		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4138</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sean]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 09:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4138</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Regarding HR, how high would you let it get on a hill - a) a short steep climb,   b) something longer - over 3-5 miles say, @5-6%

as a % of MAX HR or % Threshold (or maybe number above target average for the race)

I&#039;m doing France, not Wales, so different course, but similar concerns.
Cheers,
Sean]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding HR, how high would you let it get on a hill &#8211; a) a short steep climb,   b) something longer &#8211; over 3-5 miles say, @5-6%</p>
<p>as a % of MAX HR or % Threshold (or maybe number above target average for the race)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m doing France, not Wales, so different course, but similar concerns.<br />
Cheers,<br />
Sean</p>
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		<title>
		By: russ		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4127</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 13:34:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4127</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Full of antioxidants I believe.

Few months to go yet and a marathon at the end of the Ironman is different to one on its own. Not to say it&#039;s easier, but the pacing is a different matter. The whole day at Ironman is about balancing your pace and managing your effort to ensure you&#039;ve got the energy left for the run.

Russ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Full of antioxidants I believe.</p>
<p>Few months to go yet and a marathon at the end of the Ironman is different to one on its own. Not to say it&#8217;s easier, but the pacing is a different matter. The whole day at Ironman is about balancing your pace and managing your effort to ensure you&#8217;ve got the energy left for the run.</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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		<title>
		By: phil orr		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4126</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[phil orr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 10:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4126</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[did the belfast marathon in 4h 49mins 31 secs, bloody sore today , next one will be in wales, some serious trianing ahead of me to do one after a swim and bike ride. but not to worry this guinness and red wine seems to be working.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>did the belfast marathon in 4h 49mins 31 secs, bloody sore today , next one will be in wales, some serious trianing ahead of me to do one after a swim and bike ride. but not to worry this guinness and red wine seems to be working.</p>
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		<title>
		By: phil		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4120</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[phil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 15:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4120</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[good , piss up on monday if we are able.
cheers]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>good , piss up on monday if we are able.<br />
cheers</p>
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		<title>
		By: russ		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4118</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 12:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4118</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4117&quot;&gt;phil&lt;/a&gt;.

Phil,

With that gearing you&#039;ll be fine.

I&#039;m doing it, but this will be my first time racing the course. I&#039;ve ridden it in training and I&#039;ve coached a few athletes who raced it last year, as well as coaching a few racing it this year. I&#039;ll be there at least till the awards ceremony on the Monday, assuming everything goes to plan finishing this will mean I&#039;ve completed the Endurance Challenge set up by Ironman UK and completed all 4 of their events.

See you there

Russ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4117">phil</a>.</p>
<p>Phil,</p>
<p>With that gearing you&#8217;ll be fine.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m doing it, but this will be my first time racing the course. I&#8217;ve ridden it in training and I&#8217;ve coached a few athletes who raced it last year, as well as coaching a few racing it this year. I&#8217;ll be there at least till the awards ceremony on the Monday, assuming everything goes to plan finishing this will mean I&#8217;ve completed the Endurance Challenge set up by Ironman UK and completed all 4 of their events.</p>
<p>See you there</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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		<title>
		By: phil		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4117</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[phil]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2012 10:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4117</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[thanks for the peace of mind, counted teeth (on back cogs that is) 12-32 so should be fine. are you doing it again? if so i owe you a pint, we are staying till tuesday so we can have a few beers on the monday(rugby mentality)
all the best
phil]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the peace of mind, counted teeth (on back cogs that is) 12-32 so should be fine. are you doing it again? if so i owe you a pint, we are staying till tuesday so we can have a few beers on the monday(rugby mentality)<br />
all the best<br />
phil</p>
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		<title>
		By: russ		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/03/01/a-weekend-on-the-ironman-wales-bike-course/#comment-4116</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 07:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=3611#comment-4116</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[No problem Phil. The course is hilly and there are some steep sections, but with suitable gearing it&#039;s all about pacing those hills. You&#039;ll work harder on the uphills, but if you don&#039;t over do it, you&#039;ll be fine. I would practice some steep climbs in your rides and make sure you&#039;r comfortable with them. The steepest parts tend to be fairly short, but given they occur later in the race you&#039;ll notice them.

I don&#039;t have any pictures I&#039;m afraid, the Wisemans Hill 16% climb is a narrow, tree-lined lane, and the Saundersfoot climb is on a bigger road with a bit more variation in gradient, it averages lower, but possibly has slightly steeper pitches in there. You get a nice downhill back into Tenby after that though.

Russ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No problem Phil. The course is hilly and there are some steep sections, but with suitable gearing it&#8217;s all about pacing those hills. You&#8217;ll work harder on the uphills, but if you don&#8217;t over do it, you&#8217;ll be fine. I would practice some steep climbs in your rides and make sure you&#8217;r comfortable with them. The steepest parts tend to be fairly short, but given they occur later in the race you&#8217;ll notice them.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have any pictures I&#8217;m afraid, the Wisemans Hill 16% climb is a narrow, tree-lined lane, and the Saundersfoot climb is on a bigger road with a bit more variation in gradient, it averages lower, but possibly has slightly steeper pitches in there. You get a nice downhill back into Tenby after that though.</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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