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	<title>
	Comments on: Ironman and Marathon &#8211; See How They Run	</title>
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	<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/08/08/ironman-and-marathon-see-how-they-run/</link>
	<description>Triathlon and Ironman coaching, Ironman results and statistics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 10:47:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: russ		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/08/08/ironman-and-marathon-see-how-they-run/#comment-4437</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 10:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=4193#comment-4437</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The numbers in that table seem to work for me, perhaps right at the top end and assuming bike pacing was correct and fitness was there, but then I&#039;d be basing my judgement off outdated 10K/half times and not an accurate picture of a Functional Threshold Pace on race day. Hit closest to high end when fitness was at highest levels and hit closer to low end when it wasn&#039;t, and of course completely missed it when fitness was well off the mark.

No harm being conservative on the first race, there&#039;s a point where judgement is going to come into play, pacing guidelines are just that, guidelines. I have typically run by feel and monitored pace during all of my races, noting if it was high or low and making a call on how to respond.
 
Russ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The numbers in that table seem to work for me, perhaps right at the top end and assuming bike pacing was correct and fitness was there, but then I&#8217;d be basing my judgement off outdated 10K/half times and not an accurate picture of a Functional Threshold Pace on race day. Hit closest to high end when fitness was at highest levels and hit closer to low end when it wasn&#8217;t, and of course completely missed it when fitness was well off the mark.</p>
<p>No harm being conservative on the first race, there&#8217;s a point where judgement is going to come into play, pacing guidelines are just that, guidelines. I have typically run by feel and monitored pace during all of my races, noting if it was high or low and making a call on how to respond.</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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		<title>
		By: James		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/08/08/ironman-and-marathon-see-how-they-run/#comment-4436</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 09:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=4193#comment-4436</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks Russ &#038; Mark.  Seems faster than I&#039;d anticipated but I guess I&#039;m being conservative in planning my first long distance race.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Russ &amp; Mark.  Seems faster than I&#8217;d anticipated but I guess I&#8217;m being conservative in planning my first long distance race.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mark		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/08/08/ironman-and-marathon-see-how-they-run/#comment-4435</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 04:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=4193#comment-4435</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[To the question of how fast to start your ironman run, this table helps: http://www.ironman-mark.com/2009/03/running-paces/  

For me, it has been quite accurate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To the question of how fast to start your ironman run, this table helps: <a href="http://www.ironman-mark.com/2009/03/running-paces/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.ironman-mark.com/2009/03/running-paces/</a>  </p>
<p>For me, it has been quite accurate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: russ		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/08/08/ironman-and-marathon-see-how-they-run/#comment-4434</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 16:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=4193#comment-4434</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the paper. 

The marathon is near enough flat, with a handful of dead turns in: http://www.mapmytri.com/routes/view/111929753

I would say, that positive split marathons are the norm, and because the timing points are at 32K and 42.2K any uplift in pace in the last couple of kilometres could be lost in the average pace over that 10km gap. A few marathon datasets with mile-by-mile pacing or similar would be great here, but finding one with 4 splits was tough enough. Makes you wonder what could be done using pacing data from Garmin Connect, Strava or similar.

Russ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the paper. </p>
<p>The marathon is near enough flat, with a handful of dead turns in: <a href="http://www.mapmytri.com/routes/view/111929753" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.mapmytri.com/routes/view/111929753</a></p>
<p>I would say, that positive split marathons are the norm, and because the timing points are at 32K and 42.2K any uplift in pace in the last couple of kilometres could be lost in the average pace over that 10km gap. A few marathon datasets with mile-by-mile pacing or similar would be great here, but finding one with 4 splits was tough enough. Makes you wonder what could be done using pacing data from Garmin Connect, Strava or similar.</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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		<title>
		By: Andy		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/08/08/ironman-and-marathon-see-how-they-run/#comment-4433</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 15:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=4193#comment-4433</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Russ, the u-shaped pattern (or in your case M) you&#039;ve shown the norm I believe, and linked in with central governor and psychological motivation models of fatigue etc.. Strange results for the marathon though! Does it go up hill at the end, or introduce lots of dead turns?

I&#039;ll email you a paper I have on the effect of performance level on pacing strategies. 

Cheers, 

Andy]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Russ, the u-shaped pattern (or in your case M) you&#8217;ve shown the norm I believe, and linked in with central governor and psychological motivation models of fatigue etc.. Strange results for the marathon though! Does it go up hill at the end, or introduce lots of dead turns?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll email you a paper I have on the effect of performance level on pacing strategies. </p>
<p>Cheers, </p>
<p>Andy</p>
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		<title>
		By: russ		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/08/08/ironman-and-marathon-see-how-they-run/#comment-4432</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[russ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 14:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=4193#comment-4432</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Ask the easy questions!

Adhering to the principle that you should, in a well paced race, be able to run within 10% of your marathon time, then your target pace for race day should be around 10% slower than your marathon pace. I&#039;ve only come close to being on that 10% a few times, probably heading out at that pace and being in a position to keep the decline minimal would be about right for the Ironman trajectory of fade then pick up. Not that I&#039;m advocating you pace according to this pattern, it just seems to be what happens and it&#039;s interesting to observe that the top 20 show the same form, just not so pronounced as slower athletes. I&#039;d go in with a plan to hold a steady pace and if able to push it in the final 10K, the pace I&#039;d choose would likely fall in at around 10% slower than marathon pace; once racing, I&#039;d be watching how I felt to help guide me though.

If you&#039;ve not run a marathon of course, you&#039;ll need to guestimate that marathon pace off training/racing times elsewhere. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/calcUsage/calculate&quot; title=&quot;McMillan Running Calculator&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;McMillan run calculator&lt;/a&gt; is pretty reliable for me in estimating paces across different distances.

Russ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ask the easy questions!</p>
<p>Adhering to the principle that you should, in a well paced race, be able to run within 10% of your marathon time, then your target pace for race day should be around 10% slower than your marathon pace. I&#8217;ve only come close to being on that 10% a few times, probably heading out at that pace and being in a position to keep the decline minimal would be about right for the Ironman trajectory of fade then pick up. Not that I&#8217;m advocating you pace according to this pattern, it just seems to be what happens and it&#8217;s interesting to observe that the top 20 show the same form, just not so pronounced as slower athletes. I&#8217;d go in with a plan to hold a steady pace and if able to push it in the final 10K, the pace I&#8217;d choose would likely fall in at around 10% slower than marathon pace; once racing, I&#8217;d be watching how I felt to help guide me though.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;ve not run a marathon of course, you&#8217;ll need to guestimate that marathon pace off training/racing times elsewhere. <a href="http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/calcUsage/calculate" title="McMillan Running Calculator" rel="nofollow">McMillan run calculator</a> is pretty reliable for me in estimating paces across different distances.</p>
<p>Russ</p>
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		<item>
		<title>
		By: James		</title>
		<link>https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2012/08/08/ironman-and-marathon-see-how-they-run/#comment-4431</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2012 12:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coachcox.co.uk/?p=4193#comment-4431</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[So how fast should I start my Ironman run compared to my Half IM or marathon run? ;) (Assuming all are flat).]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how fast should I start my Ironman run compared to my Half IM or marathon run? ;) (Assuming all are flat).</p>
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